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live NL game rules question (another mucked hand debacle)

 
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LA_Rounder
"Straight to the Ace"


Joined: 22 Dec 2005
Posts: 95
Location: Los Angeles

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:55 pm    Post subject: live NL game rules question (another mucked hand debacle) Reply with quote

i was in a live NL game this afternoon when the following pot was played:

A: 88
B: QQ
C: 9c10c

Flop:
8c7c5c

Turn:
Q

River:
5

Final board:
875Q5 with three clubs

after all the money goes in on the turn and at the river, C with the 10-high flush turned over his hand and mumbled something like, "i knew that 5 on the river fucked me..."

from watching player A react to the board pairing, i knew he was right.

but B, with his queens full, saw the flush and threw his hand, face down, onto the table in front of him, near the pot, in between the other two hands. clearly he had missed that he had the best boat.

the dealer started to shove the pot to A with his 8s full, until B with QQ turned over his better full house and tried to claim the pot. his two queens never touched any other card--live or mucked, but were thrown on the table face down near the other face-up hands after he saw C's flush.

A with 8s full had the floor called. the floor ruled B with his queens full won the pot because his cards had never touched any other cards and the dealer hadn't grabbed his cards to kill his hand after he threw them down.

what's the call? i say mucked is mucked when they're thrown on the table face down outside of a player's chips, hands, or card cap, no matter where they land, but obviously not everywhere is the same.

(and no, i did not play this pot.)
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5thStreetPokerParties.com
Founding Father
Founding Father


Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 145
Location: MINNESOTA

PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cards speak for themselves...

I'm not there to identify the manner in which they were handled, but if they were still within range for the player to turn over and reveal the hand I have to say the floor made the correct call. If those cards were dug out of the mucked pile then it's a dead hand.

You can't penalize someone for being an idiot... The cards must speak for themselves.
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bratwurst
"A Set of Mop Squeezers"


Joined: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the cards never touched the muck, they're live and the cards play.
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